Youve gotta get em shipped from the UK even with international shipping you get them worlds cheaper than buying local. This prevents the rider from sitting deep and in comfort as the rider is constantly moving forwards and backwards to gain relief as the discomfort becomes more intense. This is very important and the main reason why some riders really struggle to attain the shoulder/hip/heel alignment and a quiet lower leg. It is recommended that you seek professional advice on selecting the best saddle and fit to meet the unique needs of each horse and rider combination. If the balance point of the saddle is too far forward the rider will feel like they are being tipped forward, if the balance point is too far back the rider will find they naturally sit in a chair position. Realistically id like to stay under 400. Bates /Wintec EASY-CHANGE Gullet System Gauge Correct Saddle Width Fitting Guide, {"modules":["unloadOptimization","bandwidthDetection"],"unloadOptimization":{"browsers":{"Firefox":true,"Chrome":true}},"bandwidthDetection":{"url":"https://ir.ebaystatic.com/cr/v/c1/thirtysevens.jpg","maxViews":4,"imgSize":37,"expiry":300000,"timeout":250}}. Call the Middleburg Tack Exchange. [QUOTE=soloudinhere;8267784] [QUOTE=khorrapony;8269330] Take up to two saddles on trial at one time! Should your saddle require further adjustments to your saddle, select the optimal combination of EASY-CHANGE Risers to achieve sufficient clearance, even bearing and perfect balance. On a $500 budget, finding a used Thorowgood High Withereven the cheapest model, the T4is going to be a real chore. The stirrups will always want to hang vertically. The Sprung Pelvis: Is it Worse in Ridden Horses? Be warned though: its really too short for an 18" saddle, if you go in that. Anything is possible, I suppose, but that budget is really tight.[/QUOTE]. You must always choose a saddle that fits your own conformation in this area. I am in the process of ordering a T4 COMPACT GP as he also has a short back to go with his moderate wither. It is vital that you choose the right shape for your horse or the weight will not be carried evenly on his back. Theyre easy care, legal to show in, and a reasonable value for what theyre offering. And yes, even if you have an adjustable gullet, that can be a huge asset. Ill try to find a photo of Princess Mares back for context.[/QUOTE]. Too wide. The channel might actually be too wide though theyre seriously wide through the channel. Looking along the spine, we can see dippy backs, straight backs and bumpy backs. Most horses have one shoulder that is bigger than the other, just as we are right or left handed. I love Thorowgood And if youre one of those people thats picky about Synthetics, their leather brand is Kent & Masters I believe. Use tab to navigate through the menu items. Fabulous service thank you great communication, . Its possible, but youd have to get very lucky, strike while the iron is hot, and probably not get a trial period. Got it for $100 and loved the heck out of that thing. A Bates Isabell? Help is appreciated. You cant attach pictures here unless youre a premium member, but you can cruise over to a site like TinyPic or Imgur or Photobucket and upload them there. Medium gullet plate is in now, and the MW came with it so Id bet Ill be swapping it out in a few months when she builds some muscle. Lovely saddle.. It has nothing to do with tree angle. In a perfect world, wed all like to have sufficient gussets support built right into our saddle. The saddle must then be checked with a rider on board and a second person runs their flat hand from top to bottom of the front of the tree under the front panels. Even at Dover, I have to order it and wait 10 weeks, Powered by Discourse, best viewed with JavaScript enabled, https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/equine-comfort-products-cotton-correction-half-pad-11075, https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/equine-comfort-products-cotton-correction-half-pad-11075[/QUOTE]. NB: Whilst the innovative EASY-CHANGE Fit Solution offers unsurpassed flexibility in achieving an optimal fit, no one saddle can claim to fit every horse. Oh man do I know your pain, though I had issues with having a big wide horse with highish, long withers. These next two photos show the same rider in two different saddles, one in a chair position and the other in near perfect alignment. The flock sock is well-packed with balls of synthetic flocking. [/QUOTE], Really? You guessed it, too wide. All Bates Saddles come standard with a Medium gullet plate installed. [/QUOTE], No worries, I can easily ride in a 15 inch saddle. The shoulder blade would hit the front of the tree and the points and the horse would soon start evasions such as being reluctant to do sharp turns, resistance going into trot and canter, Pig-rooting etc. Saddle fitter said theres not a thing wrong with it otherwise, and it fits my tricky horse perfectly. Was so sad it was too narrow for my current horse. Check the integrity of the tree points to which the gullets are screwed, and check the panels carefully for signs that a CAIR panel has gone flat or gotten bunchy because its shifted inside the panel. Very helpful folks. They must not be at an angle either forwards or backwards when the girth is done up. We'll use our professional judgment and over 20 years' experience to provide the best fit, but we can't guarantee a perfect fit. Shes been sitting having babies for the past few years of her life, and therefore is largely lacking a top line, and the ability for me to fit a saddle to her! Is leather worth the money? The fact is on many saddles they simply can't. The girth points can be moved on most sadddles, a fairly simple job for your saddler. Sometimes, a saddle that is straight when standing, is not straight after it has been ridden in for a few minutes. On a wide shouldered horse the wide saddle in the centre would prevent all rotation. Buy a saddle like the one on the right of the photo, NOT like the one on the left! Horses are usually NOT symmetrical. Many people ride in them very happily. Im leery of purchasing online after buying the HDR. ETA: Tricky horse is a TB with a shark fin wither, structurally massive shoulder, and short back. Ive never ridden in a synthetic saddle. But as usual, theyre only as good as the fit for horse and rider. A Bates Innova? To find this point, find where his hairlines come together in the area of his flank and draw a line straight up to his spine. Not sure which model is right for you? However, the following information can assist you in not only assessing your saddle fit, but understanding when simple adjustments should be made. In a perfect world, wed all like to have sufficient gussets support built right into our saddle. Your bits are then crunched against the narrow or high twist and it is hell after 20 minutes or so. The pony in this picture has a very short forward girth groove. This is important as the back of the saddle will always be pushed by the larger shoulder to the side of the smaller shoulder and no matter how you ride, there is nothing you can do about it - unless you have the saddle re-fitted to that horse. When you add shims to the front of the padjudiciously, and with careyou can simulate the shape of a built-in, deep-front panel like the one on the Thorowgood High Wither models. But on your budget, consider the merits of investing in a shimmable correction pad. w, flat-sided rib cages that drop sharply away, and everything in between? 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Good to know could you possibly take a look at her confo shot and tell me how she compares to your TB? Bates dressage saddle. Stubben junp saddle? The pubic bone is also much lower in women than in men. My TBx is short-backed and moderately withered and he goes in the regular wither with tons of room to spare. Run your hand between the horse and the panel of the saddle to check for even bearing. Learn more about earning points with eBay Mastercard, - eBay Return policy - opens in a new tab or window, - eBay Money Back Guarantee - opens in a new tab or window. This is important as the back of the saddle will always be pushed by the larger shoulder to the side of the smaller shoulder and no matter how you ride, there is nothing you can do about it - unless you have the saddle re-fitted to that horse. No problem Dutchess offers Virtual Saddle Fitting! The seat must be the correct size for the rider. On a $500 budget, finding a used Thorowgood High Withereven the cheapest model, the T4is going to be a real chore. Used HDR close contcact- no wither clearance, too wide. [QUOTE=The Blood Bay Mare;8267854] Sometimes you get lucky and people dont know what they have, or theres something cosmetically wrong with the saddle that does not impact its function. Its easy to spot uphill and downhill backs. At this point I was just trying everything available to me. Since the padding will be in your correction pad, youll have much more flexibility to add/subtract padding over time. I own two thorowgoods but with the new price point creeping up to 900-1000 I dont think youll find one of the newer ones for $500. Sometimes you get lucky and people dont know what they have, or theres something cosmetically wrong with the saddle that does not impact its function. This is NOT normal and would never be seen on an unbroken horse. Look at the 3 saddles in the photo. Pictures would certainly help the general COTH rabble understand your situation. What id REALLY like would be an interchangeable gullet system so I can adjust the saddle as she develops a top line. Id like the T8 but its a bit expensive and hard to find here. Women often have problems with saddles rubbing and putting pressure on the 'bits' that are unmentionable. http://www.caircushionsystem.com/faqs/index.htm, http://www.easychangefitsolution.com/easy-change_fit_solution/index.html, Debunked: The Lie Thats Told About Adjustable Gullet Saddles, The Horses Back Patreon Hits 100 Wonderful Posts And Here Are Their Titles, Beyond Sidebone: Pastern Pain and the Lateral Cartilage, Heres a Round Up of My Premature and Dysmature Foal Research, Yes, We Can Image for Transitional Vertebrae in Horses. Both have high somewhat cut-back pommels, so work well with different height/length withers. Most horses have one shoulder that is bigger than the other, just as we are right or left handed. In order to check the clearance, bearing and balance of a saddle it is important that the saddle is initially positioned correctly. The girth points, when the saddle is positioned correctly on the horse should hang perpendicular to the ground when they are positioned to be in the girth groove of the horse. I wouldnt give up on finding one cheap. I myself need a saddle with a wider twist, a shallow rise towards the pommel and a wider seat or I can't ride in it for very long! For leather, look into an OLD Kieffer or Passier. I purchased a medium Kincade dressage saddle- way too wide. This muscle damage is permanent. Copyright 2019 Bates Australia. And yes, even if you have an adjustable gullet, that can be a huge asset. How adaptable are the saddles for achieving an optimal fit?. I have (stretched) a $500 budget. Paving the Way for Future Research a New ECVM Horse Register, 10 Rehab Tips for Horses with High-Low or Upright Hooves, A Pelvic Blow Out? The girth points, when the saddle is positioned correctly on the horse should hang perpendicular to the ground when they are positioned to be in the girth groove of the horse. [QUOTE=jn4jenny;8266024] I cant see the tracings at work, but just in general, I dont see a lot of horses who would actually fit into a narrow tree. There should be even pressure all the way along, not less in the middle, more in the middle, etc. Air is captured at atmospheric pressure in an open-celled foam and sealed in the Air Panel. The Twist of the saddle is the part of the seat that is the narrowest. For this pony the girth straps would need to be attached to the saddle much further forwards to stop this happening. The problem is that most saddles are designed by men. They exist, but Arabian would not be the breed I think of when I think of a narrow tree horse. Flexi Contourblocs and Adjustable Ergonomic Stirrup Bars are both anatomically shaped and adjustable, so you can customize to fit your ideal riding position. Anything is possible, I suppose, but that budget is really tight. The saddle must be reflocked or a saddle cloth with pockets and shims used to balance out the unevenness. Oh man do I know your pain, though I had issues with having a big wide horse with highish, long withers. For someone on your budget, the ECP cotton correction half pad is a good choice. When you add shims to the front of the padjudiciously, and with careyou can simulate the shape of a built-in, deep-front panel like the one on the Thorowgood High Wither models. (To be fair, I could make similar comments about leather saddles.). Just another vote for the Thorowgood! Ordered a seat size too large the first time around so exchanging for a smaller size now. For someone on your budget, the ECP cotton correction half pad is a good choice. The loins must never carry any weight as they are the weakest part of the back. Thanks! Definitely invest in the ECP pad linked above as well! The Innova Mono+ is a great choice for the rider looking for the next level in performance, comfort, and adjustability. If you want to do dressage at any level, make sure that the saddle you choose has the stirrup bar position far enough back for you to have a vertical stirrup leather when you are in the correct shoulder/hip/heel position. Kieffer might be difficult to find in narrow (their standard is a medium that can be adjusted up or down a bit by a fitter), and IIRC Passiers tend to run narrow. And spines may have wide spinal processes or narrow ones. Be sure to select the Silver Level or above when purchasing your new saddle. (This rule does not apply to hoop tree saddles, they should sit very close to the horse.). Check to see that the channel of the saddle is clear of your horses wither and spine through the length of the saddle. Consignment Saddlesnot included. Normally in flatter seat saddles the seat size could be smaller than in a deep seat one for the same rider. I wouldnt give up on finding one cheap. I tried a high wither T4 on my shark-finned, narrow backed, impossible to fit gelding with amazing results. The narrow, high upward curve of the twist would mush my bits. The Bates Innova Mono+ dressage saddle features an advanced monoflap design, with a deep, open seat and luxuriously grippy lined leather for the ultimate close and comfy ride. On most gp saddles and some dressage saddles the stirrup bar is positioned too far forward and the rider is forced into a chair seat as a result. Pony was happy with this one. Ive had trouble getting adequate wither clearance on her. Copyright 1995-2022 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. It really depends on the saddles age, how well its been cared for, and how hard it was ridden. Since the padding will be in your correction pad, youll have much more flexibility to add/subtract padding over time. Ill try to find a photo of Princess Mares back for context. So many people have problems with saddles that constantly move forwards or backwards and many times this is due to the girth points being positioned either too far backwards or forwards on the saddle for that particular horse's girth groove. The tree angle must be the same as the angle of the horse's shoulder at a point 2 to 3 inches behind the rear edge of the shoulder blade. In that price range, I can definitely get a wintec or thorowgood. When your new saddle is delivered, you'll need to choose the correct gullet plate for your horse, and purchase either aComplete Gullet Kitor one or moreindividual gullet plates. It is very narrow where my seatbones sit my seatbones would be wider than the seat in this area. Be warned though: its really too short for an 18" saddle, if you go in that. All site content is copyright of Saddle Central, Quality New and Used Saddles & Accessories For Sale, Saddle Fitting Guide for English Style Saddles. *Saddle fitting is not an exact science. Its just about driving me insane on my small budget. The size of the seat must to be selected based on the weight and leg length of the rider and giving consideration to the saddle style, brand and model as well. Looking across the spine, we can spot angular A-frame backs and smooth, flat and pudgy backs. Medium gullet plate is in now, and the MW came with it so Id bet Ill be swapping it out in a few months when she builds some muscle. If your saddle features the CAIR Cushion System its important that a rider sits in the saddle to check the bearing, as the air panels become dynamic under the riders weight. Ive never found a saddle that fits her better than this T6. The seat must be the correct size for the rider. Im just about to order a T4 now from Dover but would love to hear which websites youve discovered! 88% sure this saddle was a MN. For synthetic, if you can get ahold of a Tekna S to try on, try that! This is determined by the shape of the tree from front to back. They must not be at an angle either forwards or backwards when the girth is done up. [QUOTE=grayci;8266121] You can find the odd used bates floating around for 500 every now and then. A link to set a new password will be sent to your email address. Need help? View cart for details. ButHang On Traditional flocked panels What are they talking about? In sythetic saddles, 6 years is pretty old, and the trees and panels have changed a couple times in the thorowgood lineup since then, so what you were getting might be very different from what someone with a 2015 model might have. My seatbones miss the seat altogether and are sitting on the ridge or with some saddles past the seat itself!! Log in, http://www.easychangefitsolution.com/saddle_brands/wintec-saddles.html (13/3/2017), http://caircushionsystem.com/noflash.htm (13/3/2017), http://caircushionsystem.com/whatIsCAIR/index.htm (13/3/2017). Meanwhile, the Instructor is shouting Keep your lower leg still but the rider cannot as it is impossible due to the stirrup bar position being too far forwards on the saddle. Meanwhile, exactly which Bates were you sitting in? Saddles that are too narrow in either tree angle or width can cause hollows to develop behind the horse's shoulder. They are all sold as 'Wide' as the tree angles are the same but the bottom one has almost double the tree width between the top of the panels. Men have a distance between their seatbones of about 4" but women can vary from 4" to 8" and the wider apart your seatbones, the worse the problem becomes if the Twist is too narrow or high. Join today and have access to 25 archive posts straight away. (Includes Pictures of the Secret Flock Sock), Debunked: The Lie Thats Told About Adjustable Saddles. Saddle trees vary from flat, which suits a lot of cob types to banana shaped trees for older and sway backed horses, in the middle is a standard tree, with a gentle curve. http://www.easychangefitsolution.com/easy-change-story.html (13/3/2017). When you mention Saddle Fitting to many riders they only consider ONE thing, the angle of the tree at the front of the saddle which usually come in various sizes, narrow, medium, wide, extra-wide, etc. Similar cut-back pommel to Kieffer and Passier with the added bonus of a changeable gullet. Many newer dressage saddles now feature extended stirrup bars as standard and a few brands have adjustable stirrup bars. Quick delivery, as described. Id expect to pay $300 for a 6 year old synthetic saddle. Locate your horses shoulder and check to see that the nail of the saddle is approximately three fingers distance from the edge of your horses shoulder. Does your saddle feature the EASY-CHANGE Gullet System only? The text book rule is that the lowest part of the seat should be the centre on the saddle. The saddle will ALWAYS move to the position where the girth hangs vertically and in this case with this saddle, where the girthing points are too far back the saddle ends up on his shoulders!! They can be gotten for as little as $200 (paid that for both of mine, though theyre a bit beaten up sound to ride in though). The saddle in the next photo would kill me!! The thorowgood high wither has caught my interest with the front gusset. I know as I have this problem with a great many saddles!!! I wanted to show her wither tracings/some side shots of her to get some suggestions, but I cant seem to figure out how to attach photos? Then the rider goes to trot and with every rise and fall the leg swings back and forward in an effort to stand with a stirrup which is not aligned. You'll be responsible for shipping, and for any excessive damage while the saddle is on trial. Regency dressage saddle. FREE ground shipping for orders $75 & over. ETA: Tricky horse is a TB with a shark fin wither, structurally massive shoulder, and short back. In our efforts to minimize your shipping cost we will contact you with your shipping rate after you purchase the saddle or send a trial inquiry. Wintec, thorowgood, bates. Ive never found a saddle that fits her better than this T6. The Sprung Pelvis in Horses, Cost of Survival: The Lifelong Problems of Premature and Dysmature Foals, All About Crooked Legs: Angular Limb Deformities in Horses and Foals, Using Rug Sensors to Monitor Your Horses REM Sleep. If you are experiencing problems with shipping in checkout please contact us - sales@dutchessbridlesaddle.com. By bringing a rider into better balance, the horse is more comfortable and able to move more freely as well. Youve gotta get em shipped from the UK even with international shipping you get them worlds cheaper than buying local. Virtual Saddle Fitting is non refundable. This causes pressure on the soft female bits if the twist is too high or too hard. Please see our fitting page to purchase this service along with purchasing your saddle. Various collegiate close contact saddles. Check that the deepest part of the saddle is central and level to ensure perfect saddle balance. If your horse is developing these hollows, get a different saddle QUICKLY. The rider must also feel that they are sitting 'IN' the saddle, not perched 'ON' it and this aspect is very rider-shape dependent and only trying the saddle can decide if the saddle seat fits the rider. - eBay Money Back Guarantee - opens in a new window or tab. And how about round rib cages that spring out nearer the spine, or narro. Anybody has experience with these brands? The panel should be in full contact with the horse's back evenly all the way from front to back. I love Thorowgood And if youre one of those people thats picky about Synthetics, their leather brand is Kent & Masters I believe.[/QUOTE]. Nope, Ive found the trick to getting cheap thorowgoods. Ensure your horse is standing square and is on level ground. All rights reserved. I ended up getting a 2009 T6 High Wither for $300 because of some unattractive wear on the synthetic part of the flaps. (Not sure if this is in the right place!). But on your budget, consider the merits of investing in a shimmable correction pad. In order to have shoulder/hip/heel alignment with these saddles the rider would have to bring the lower leg back but then the stirrup no longer hangs vertically, but slopes backwards as well. There should be an equal even pressure all the way down - not tighter at the top than the bottom or vice versa. People wrongly assume that if you can get 3 fingers wither clearance with the rider on board then the saddle fits. You'll also need to assess the balance of the saddleif any Risers are needed to level the saddle and stabilize the seat, you'll need to purchase and install these as well. Theyre also super comfy, unlike some have found the others listed above (though I find my Kieffer very comfy). Your saddle should bear evenly on your horses back, providing a close fit. You will need to purchase the Silver Level or above. Anything narrower than a medium pinched and restricted shoulder movement, but finding something with a wide enough tree and enough wither clearance was a nightmare. This guide shows the 12 essential points to check for a correctly fitting saddle for both horse and rider. The gullet must be wide enough not to interfere with the spinal processes or musculature of the horse's back (3-5 fingers), all the way from front to back. statements that are made in order to sell them. It is possible to have a horse that needs a wide tree width, but a narrow tree angle at the same time. I wouldnt expect to pay $300 for one of the new ones with the new tree and surface blocks, for example. I had a hard time finding anyone that carried anything BUT the compact version in the US, but the compact actually seemed to fit is average lengthed back quite nicely. The wither tracings are from top to bottom: three fingers behind shoulder blade, lowest point of back, and top line. We have high withers, middling withers and rangy tabletops. An old-style Bates Caprilli Dressage? Need help fitting this saddle? Saddle trees vary from flat, which suits a lot of cob types to banana shaped trees for older and sway backed horses, in the middle is a standard tree, with a gentle curve. These hollows are caused by the death of the muscle fibres due to pressure and constant trapping between the shoulder blade and the tree. Dover carries them. Many very old saddles have a channel that is far too narrow especially towards the back. If you prefer assistance by using our Virtual Saddle Fitting Service option, we'll determine the correct gullet plate and EASY-CHANGE Riser configuration* based on wither tracings and profile photos of your horse. You will then find it easy a miracle and your lower leg will be still as well. Nope, Ive found the trick to getting cheap thorowgoods. This then lowers the sensitive bits down onto the saddle as the saddle seat falls away the lower down you go. Foam panel insert, now renamed the EASY-Change Riser System. New saddle trials last for 5 days. Then, paste the link for the photos into your post. Your personal data will be used to support your experience throughout this website and to manage access to your account. If the saddle has a changeable gullet and it matches the wither tracing, adjustments should be made to the flock not the gullet bar. This is one of the points of saddle fit that I see incorrectly fitted very often. Most people know that a saddle must have 2 to 3 fingers wither clearance at the top of the withers, with the rider on board but did you know that it also has to have at least 2 fingers distance all around the withers, at the sides as well? This is determined by doing a wither tracing at this point and matching it to the angle of the tree of the saddle. Then, we'll ship the saddle to you with the correct gullet plate and risers already installed, so you're ready to ride right out of the box! Horses are usually NOT symmetrical. Nothing wrong with synthetic dressage saddles, IMO. Anything narrower than a medium pinched and restricted shoulder movement, but finding something with a wide enough tree and enough wither clearance was a nightmare. Once the air panel is welded the open-celled foam becomes irrelevant, as it is the air trapped in the panel, which is doing the work. High withers can extend way back into the area of the saddle. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Bates Caprilli CC Jumping Saddle with Heritage Leather, DT Saddlery 17 Butterfly Claudia Dressage Saddle 1006, Stubben 17.5 31cm Genesis Deluxe VSD 0936, JRD 17.5 M Short Flap Dressage Saddle 0897, Stubben 17 M/MW Scandica Dressage Saddle 1066, Dutchess Bridle & Saddle, LLC412B US Highway 206 SouthMontague, NJ 07827, Monday - Friday: 10am - 5pmSaturday: 10am - 4pmSunday: by appointment, About UsServicesOur BrandsHow do you Dutchess?Society of Master Saddlers UK, ShippingSaddle Trial PolicyReturns & ExchangesFAQsCustomer ServicePrivacy Policy.