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Helping You to Do It Yourself! Laila, it depends. If you want your cement board shower to eventually be waterproof, you have to install it correctly. Sorry, I'm sticking with Bud's advice. And it doesnt flex much which makes cracked tiles less likely. Did you have any trouble with the bathroom years later? Apply waterproofing about 6 inches on each side of a corner. However, it does not make a shower, bathroom or kitchen area waterproof simply by installing it. As far as the mastic, technically and legally, if use only used it on the walls, he's technically and legally okay. Simply apply mortar to the wall and then press the tiles in place. We've diy'ed a lot of apartments bath remodels (approx 10). For large areas you can use a sprayer, roller or trowel. Smooth the surface as well as possible. Apply the caulk and push it into the cracks with your finger. Once the caulk dries, apply the waterproof layer right over the caulk. I have the durock in place already and the fibermesh tape has been applied along with the mortar on the joints. When I questioned him about it, he said that just the Durock would be fine and that I didn't need anything else. I guess I didn't know that until now. However, its not a replacement for waterproofing. However, you have to apply a waterproofing layer over the cement-board before you install the tile or stone. But technically, it is allowed on shower walls. ARGH! The tiles will probably come loose before the studs rot. For this reason, cement-board is considered water resistant and not water-proof without a membrane or waterproof coating. Cement board in a shower should be waterproofed before you install tile. Now if he used it on your shower's floor tiles, that's an outright "failure to perform" type of thing for the exact reasons that Stonetech mentioned. You need to apply waterproofing over cement board in wet areas such as a shower. "Legally correct" can be different than "morally correct". Once the fiberglass is in place, cover it with another layer of waterproofing. Most concrete backer-boards on the market today are not water-resistant, but all are waterproof. I wanted a more modern look. Enter Our Dog Days of Summer BBQ Giveaway Now! Every pail says it can be used.". If the screw heads stick up from the boards surface, itll interfere with the waterproofing layer. Cement-board can be submerged in water without damage, green drywall cant. Use the correct grout. Before you install the backer-board, check that the sub-floor is not bouncy, weak or rotted; concrete backer-board has thousands of pounds of compression strength but very little tensile strength (strength to adequately span a distance), since it is not designed to carry spanned loads. Cement board, a.k.a. Durock doesn't deteriorate in the presence of water, but it doesn't stop water from soaking through it. This ensure no water can penetrate through the cement board and onto the framing which can eventually cause rot, mold, mildew and deterioration. If you do find movement, remove the cement-board and fix the issue before applying waterproofing. Cement-board is a fantastic material for use in a shower. If you are new here, please review posting/commenting guidelines below. It was a totally beautiful, close to maintenance free dream of a bathroom that i enjoyed every day for about six years til we sold the house and moved to a new city with a newly renovated equally spacious spa-like bathroom with lots of marble tile and grout. It has a special design that cuts down on bleeding. I always wipe the tiles down to as soon as the shower is done. "The hell it is" was referring to the claim that it is okay to use on the walls. Come join the discussion about tools, projects, builds, styles, scales, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Most types of concrete backer-board are made of a fibrous cement composition thats molded into sheets. Mortar, tile and grout provide some protection against water as well as the cement board itself. In fact, cement-board can be fully submersed under water without damage. In highly wet areas, water will absorb through the grout and mortar down to the cement board. Another manufacturer restricts tile to 12". My contractor used mastic everywhere he installed new tile for me--kitchen floor, foyer, etc. Do you happen to have a link to the water proofer product you've used? Metrojersey.com NJ's #1 Web Directory Make accurate cuts. They'll just tell you to use it if it's required. This can cause rot and mold. But if he used is on the tiled shower floor? Yes, this is the same contractor who ruined my kitchen too, which I recently posted about. However, in areas that get extremely wet, like a shower, you should always apply a layer of waterproofing on top of the cement board before you tile. Redgard is a liquid you apply to the cement board using a brush, roller, trowel or sprayer. This can be done with paint on membranes like RedGard or Hydrobanor sheet membranes. They also arent exposed to as much pressure because you don;t walk on them. However its not a waterproof material. One mastic I've used has I a maximum of 6" square tiles on floors and 10" square on walls. If you apply waterproofing correctly, you wont need the additional membrane under the cement-board. Some prohibit setting natural stone tile on floors with mastic. However, when a product is characterized as "water resistant," it means it is impermeable, able to repel water. Privacy Policy and Cookie Statement updated 7/1/2022). Once the cement board is installed, tape off areas you dont want waterproofing. What waterproof material would you recommend and what is the general method to install it. USG and other manufacturers can't play to all parties involved. Thanks for any advice. Here, in Georgia anyhow, tile is considered finish work and can have only a taillight warranty. It helps prevent mold and wont deteriorate when wet like drywall will. However, any waterproof screw will do. If removing the Durock is no longer an option, or would like a superior method of managing moisture, then you can waterproof the front of the cement board. Wall tiles dont get as wet as floor tiles because water runs off them. I am just thinking I will use the thinset and get the tiles installed. Tile size: Mastic cures by drying, so it needs exposure to a certain amount of free air. My original thoughts were since the shower will be used so seldomly I'm thinking a full waterproof job could be overboard. Concrete-board comes in sheets that are screwed to the wall or floor. Dont demolish distract the eye by updating small details, Take your bathroom from drab to fab without getting out the sledgehammer or racking up lots of charges, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, CHRISTI TASKER | Creative Director, Designer, Convert Your Tub Space Into a Shower Waterproofing and Drainage, Look-Alikes That Save Money Without Skimping on Style, 5 Steps to Help You Hire the Right Contractor, Contractor Tips: What Your Contractor Really Means, Contractor's Tips: 10 Things Your Contractor Might Not Tell You, Contractor Tips: 10 Ways to Get the Remodel You Want for Less, 8 Ways to Spruce Up an Older Bathroom (Without Remodeling), 4 Easy Ways to Renew Your Bathroom Without Remodeling, Need suggestions for lights, accent tile, mirrors. If anyone disagrees speak soon. Thank you for the advice, everyone. It helps the mortar adhere to both the cement board and tile. I am a remodeling novice and one way I try to protect myself is by getting city permits on my remodeling jobs. If the boards are installed correctly you should feel no movement at all. Similar to photo below. Concrete-board makes a great backing material for tile because its water-resistant and very stiff. To find out about building codes, you can look for your city's codes online, but the easier way might be to call the building department that's staffed by people who answer these questions all the time. Expose Durock to enough moisture and the moisture will pass right through. I'm thinking both bathroom's walls need to be completely redone with proper water proofing and thinset instead of mastic. A former contractor friend I talked to yesterday claims he never used to water proof beyond the shower pan basically. Use the trowel and/or roller to apply product first and then the brush to work it into all the corners, seams and cracks. Is it okay in these areas since they aren't generally wet, or is this still a no no? Find the best general contractor for your remodel or new build by heeding this advice, Before you pick up a single tile, pull from these tips for expert results, Translate your contractor's lingo to get the communication on your home project right, Climbing through your closets and fielding design issues galore, your contractor might stay mum. Build the floor out of cement-board with waterproofing. But every manufacturer's rep will tell you it can't be done. First you install cement-board. Then you waterproof it. This creates a stiff bond thats not easy to break. It's not foolproof - I'm sure there's stuff that can slip by but if you're heading for a re-do you might consider it. Concrete backer-board, once commonly referred to in the field by the brand name Wonderboard(r), is a cement product designed as a sheathing material for walls and floors. That could be the floor, walls, shelves, a curb or seat. Step 4 in swapping your tub for a sleek new shower: Pick your waterproofing materials and drain, and don't forget to test, Whether in woodwork, flooring, wall treatments or tile, you can get a luxe effect while spending less, Don't take chances on this all-important team member. They have given me more encouragement to voice my issues more strongly. Thanks. Why did you dig up a 5 yr old posy for that tidbit Lynda? I was certainly surprised and apparently confused by the wording of his comment. Can you share the final outcome? Apply the waterproofing sealant to all the corners and seams first. Press J to jump to the feed. The most common area is a tub or shower pan. Each steps adds to the water-resistance of the area. Push it into the cracks, seams and corners with the brush. Tile and stone are installed using mortar and typically have grout. If the frame you apply the concrete board onto is weak or moves, it could eventually crack the waterproofing layer and tile. Since many people confuse the terms, it is a common misconception that this is the best material for use inside a shower or tub area. Waterproofing sealants like Redgard take about 60-90 minutes to dry. Im in a similar situation. Press the grout hard into the grout lines so that it penetrates all the way down to the mortar. Clueless novice herethanks! Probably most common and least expensive, but at the same time adequate if properly detailed, is installing either tar paper of 6-mil poly sheeting between the Durock and the studs. If you decide to use concrete backer-board in a tub and/or shower surround, there are some very important considerations to keep in mind. If removing the Durock is still an option, this is an inexpensive path to take. This gives compression strength to an ordinary plywood sub-floor so that brittle flooring like ceramic tile can be placed upon it without a great risk of fracturing. Tool Guy Lg asked: Did you install a moisture barrier behind the Durock and lap the bottom of it over the tiling flange of the Swanstone shower receptor? Freestanding tub area. I usually wait a full day. This is so helpful. Should I have been told? He only used Durock/mastic and did not use any sort of waterproof membrane or moisture barrier. Its very stiff and strong with very little flex. Before we wouldn't waterproof over cement board. Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile. Running late this morningno time for dealing with idiots right now but I will say this: This guy (BUD) can criticize although he offers no advice lets not make this thread into personal attacks. The same hold true for cement board. Cement-board is much stronger and harder which makes it a better sub material. On your substrate and the size of the tile used. I recommend Frog tape. It's technically allowed in a shower surround on the walls, but not on the shower floor. Need help designing tub with window in tub/shower to be waterproof. You might try contacting him and see if you can have a three way conversation with him and your contractor. Is it okay in these areas since they aren't generally wet, or is this still a no no? In this case, you need to use a sealant. Some moisture gets behind the tile and into the cement board. mongoct, I interpreted Bill's comment to mean that even though the pail says you can use it on the walls, the rep's will tell you it can't. Once youre all done, the shower should be completely red. Make sure the backer-board is fastened to the wall studs with galvanized screws or rustproof concrete backer-board screws. Sponges undergo repeated wetting and drying cycles and are pretty much undamaged by water. The coating on green drywall is just on the surface, if water penetrates into the drywall its ruined. The way you eventually apply your mud, tile and grout can help waterproof the cement board too. Can you advise any way to protect the recessed area for the shutters to still be installed? This eliminates voids where water can collect and pop a tile. Thanks. We did a lot of research when putting in a shower pan and now use the paint on water proofer in all future projects. Houzz Pro: One simple solution for contractors and design pros. One of the more difficult skills to acquire in the building industry is the ability to float a reinforced cement pad, generally referred to as a "mud job," for setting tile. I had a similar problem when they were doing my showers last November, except my contractor used Fiberock. If you have any questions about waterproofing cement board, email any time. Floors size is usually more restrictive due to the weight of walking on the tile. But water can pass right through a sponge. Its something you do in addition. Before you install any concrete-board, check that the sub-floor and walls are not bouncy, weak or rotted. Help please. Its used as a sub-material behind tile in a shower, bathroom or kitchen. However, if it was that bad of tile they could have told me and I WOULD have bought all new tile. Its enough to resist water in areas that dont get that wet like a tiled floor. Is thin set okay? Make sure the top of the screw is flush with the top of the concrete-board. Tile and grout don't stop all the moisture that's exposed to them. The main guy of the company says they will fix it if it is their fault they are wanting to blame my poor choice in tile. waterproofing is only needed where water is. This eliminates small spaces water can collect. Kind of good news: I called the contractor and he said that he did NOT use mastic on the floorshe used thin set mortar. Every pail says it can be used. This is a tear-out and re-do with a competent installer. What do I recommend? If it's required by code and he didn't install anything behind the cement backer board, it's "failure to perform". Here's the thingmanufacturers are, for the most part, only going to tell you how to install their product. This means a second coat on all screw holes, corners and seams and a single coat on all flat areas. (I'm in Oakland, CA). And its also much more water-resistant. The best way to waterproof cement board is with a liquid waterproofing material like Redgard. Thanks. So there are all types of membrane materials that are used in conjunction with tile backer boards like Durock. Once installed, use a liquid waterproofing sealant like Redgard on all cracks, seams and screw holes. But for wider grout lines use sanded. He is no Tile Mechaniche is a hack if that's his procedure for a shower build. And just to clarify, mastic should NOT be used at all? Concrete board is strong and stiff with high compressive strength. The mesh provides tensile strength to the mud job, while the cement provides compression strength. Maybe your Laticrete pails read different, but for the two mastics most readily available near me; OmniGrip and AcrylPro, they both state they can be used on shower walls and they both specifically prohibit them from being used on shower floors. Please help!! How Many Square Feet Of Concrete In A Yard? After the first coat of waterproofing, when its still wet, apply the fiberglass mesh. Substrate: Some manufacturers restrict the type of material that you can spread mastic on. This makes is a great backer material for tile and stone slabs. builder, anti-builder, rebuilder -- Retired Moderator, The Durock should be furred out so it runs past the Swanstone receptor tiling flange and stops about 1/8 above the the deck.