Start your subscription today and save up to 70%. This helps prevent damage to walls created by leaks. Dilute about 32:1 with water. The showers been in use for approximately one month now and since day one, theres always been a circle of darkened tiles around the drain that never seem to dry out. Here's how to get it right the first time, Work with your contractors and installers to ensure a safe, stylish curb that keeps the water where it belongs, Clear glass surrounds have raised the design bar for details such as shampoo and soap shelves. This process will ensure that the waterproofing starts now above the tile preventing water penetrating past the surface. Some linear shower drains dont have weep holes at the waterproofing locking flange level. Thus, a mortar bed must be installed to provide load distribution and a bonding surface for the floor tile. I'm trying to get in touch with the person I mentioned now. When the weep openings are caulked over, the water cannot get out, so it collects and rots the inside of the wall. Any empty spaces behind the tile are opportunities for bacteria growth should any water get through. Grout against the pan would likely crack over time. I think you are playing with fire. The only problem would be aesthetic, being that you wouldn't be able to run mesh tape, and the grout on that seam might crack. Sand is added to grout as a bulk filler, it prevents shrinkage cracking that might otherwise occur should unsanded grout be used in too wide a joint. Repair #1 consisted of removing shower pan, first row of tile and cement board down to the studs, then CB, tile, etc. I'm glad I took a picture of the grout they used (see pic above). This is the case in environments with high concentrations of minerals that cover the crevices. Based on the photos, there wasn't any way to securely seam the new cement board to the existing cement board, and no way to run a continuous sheet of plastic from the top of the shower down to the pan between the cement board and framing during the repair. Aggravating to have to be the one doing all this research when we are the paying customers. If I had chosen the same glaze in an arabesque it would have been over the top. Why are you doing this and not the original installers? The replacement pan was set in concrete. I have also found that the "weep hole" issue is hotly debated. These products allow the installer to produce a sealed system, in contrast to the water in/ water out system described previously. My orig comments in regards to the tile was to determine what kind of tile before making the assumption they were laid wrong. Trowel-applied membranes may also incorporate reinforcing mesh at corners and joints, or over the entire surface. Take a real good look at the grout line that shows wetting. Without that preslope as I have explained it, the water will more than likely pool, and cause problems much as you are experiencing. It could be a tiny crack although it doesn't look like a crack. A weep hole would not be required for a linear drain used with tile that has already been set in thinset over a waterproofing membrane. Pan liners may consist of metals such as lead and copper or plastics such as polyvinyl chloride (PVC) and chlorinated polyethylene (CPE). There is no issue of water accumulation in the grout, so you dont have to worry about something like weep holes. Once youve created a waterproof zone, be careful to protect it from any breach while you are tiling a shower. Additionally, weep holes are crucial for allowing water to escape the pan through the secondary drain.Without correctly installing the shower pan, it will hold water and potentially cause leaks and efflorescence. For example, a common error is to ignore the pre-slope installation and place the pan liner directly over the flat subfloor. Welcome, Hawkette. DSapone can rectify this issue by removing all the caulk and replacing it with Sentura (flexible 2 part epoxy/reisn) and sealing all the grout lines with Caponi (2 part titanium pigmented grout sealant). You go above and beyond what you think is the minimum required. The modal window is a 'site map' of the most critical areas of the site. Contractors never caulked tiled area behind shower door frame so it was assumed that the water was penetrating at that point. I might try really thoroughly drying it out. I can remember years ago (20-30) pulling up and still putting in lead pans. Here are some pics as it was being built. The way the builder explained it was that grout is porus and, even if sealed, it will absorb water. If you really think about it, though, what difference does it make if the holes are blocked with the deck mortar or not? Most outside shower drains dont have weep holes because they are not necessary. In fact, after two consecutive days of none-use, the damp circle did not decrease appreciably. 3. Sort of a triple cold joint. Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox. Could this where water is breaching the waterproof membrane? As such, the standard does not include a minimum criterion to establish the ability of products to limit vapor transmission. Normally when repairing a tiled wall, the tiles are removed to a point higher then the area where the work has to be done. Actually, there is. They are these small holes at the sides of the opening. I didn't even notice the bench up till now. How to Keep Your House Warm in the Winter. Leaking showers can kill your house. It can take a while for a slow leak to saturate an area, then any additional water added after that will show up as a fast leak, as the path that it follows is already fully wetted. Je peux rejeter les cookies non essentiels en cliquant sur Grer mes prfrences . The area is slightly concave where most of the original part of the shower grout is more flush with the surface of the tile. The ability of the product to limit vapor transmission must be considered as well. You can see how dark (wet) the grout is above the weephole. One look at that job site an the $50 saw and you can tell these are no pro tile layers. How is that toilet? Could it be that the grout and caulk is the problem? There is NO WAY there should be weepholes between the plastic pan and the tile!! You may have something as similar as a leak where the shower head arm is threaded into the brass union located in the wall. let's forget about the tiles and even their installation. These drains provide a large, fleece-covered contact area to allow for a watertight connection between the membrane and the top of the drain assembly. {{gwi:1488687}}, After a few months, noticed discolored grout in floor outside of shower. Try turning on the shower, but capture all the water in a drywall bucket or something similar. I'd be looking at one of two things-- either the plumbing, or the bench (good call, brewbeer). This raised a few questions as some had never heard of weep holes on a tub or shower. No math, no measuringjust a simple jig made from an elastic band is all you need to lay out a good-looking deck railing. Please offer any and all suggestions. Regardless of the waterproofing method chosen (hot mopping, pvc/cpe membranes, etc.) Cindy-- I was talking about plumbing weepholes-- not ones in the door track. It's also quite easy to unscrew the arm from the wall, add new teflon tape or teflon pipe dope to the threads, and rethread the arm to the union. Around twenty years ago, manufacturers introduced bonded waterproof membranes, which are adhered to the substrate and allow for the direct application of tile. Applicable standard: ANSI A118.7. Last time I used silicone and thought that would solve the issue. The idea was to see if there was any separation between the tile and the grout along that interface, the thinness of the blade might allow you to slide it in between the tile and the grout. - Avoid using nails or screws to attach curbs or benches. Unfortunately, the pre-slope is a very important and most forgotten step, which allows water to lay stagnant under the tile. Am I checking to see if grout crumbles or is loose there? I really think that the problem can be fixed realtively easily if I could actually figure out exactly what is causing it. An epoxy grout colorant? Simple Green Pro 5 will kill mold, mildew, fungus, viruses, bacteria. Any water that passes through the grout and caulk will stop at the waterproofed membrane and travel to the drain.The waterproof membrane is a liquid form, which is brushed on or a membrane sheet that is adhered to the top of the mud bed. The flanges did NOT have weep holes. It'll evaporate back thru the grout joints. Another neighbor had the same problem and the same moron contractor removed ALL the caulk from the lower perimeter of the shower pan so the water get back up in there. The prime example of this is the steam shower. Even one small oversight can spell disaster. Here are a couple more. Honestly, I don't know if there is even a vapor barrier. Your feet, wallet and downstairs neighbors may be nodding. Clogged Weep Holes in Your Shower Stall Will Have You Weeping, Regardless of the waterproofing method chosen (hot mopping, pvc/cpe membranes, etc.) I cleared the weep holes free of excess tar and gunk and verified that all three holes flowed clearly when we did the holding water test. I have spoken to a local reputable tile contractor and he said he has seen the weepholes before, although most of what they do is tile floors. I was concentrating on the FRONT of the shower. Theres no cutting corners when it comes to installing shower tile. Alternatively, I'd go with something that contrasts clearly, like all white (with the wood as accent) or a gray, or maybe pebbles or something that replicates the stucco look. Not to hijack this thread cindyloowoo, but I'm also located in South Central PA, in the process of building our home, and we're looking for a good tile layer to do a neo-angle shower. West Coast Hot Mop Shower Pans always leaves weep holes clear when done hot mopping, but it is very important but to makes sure the tile installer also protects the weep holes during tile installation. This increases the potential for efflorescence and mold growth within the system. You will do more damage to your house if you use that shower. For example, some linear shower drains do not require weep holes because they are designed to eliminate moisture in other ways. Can anyone help to confirm this before I go drilling into my shower pan? Send us an email: , Essential Water Management in Tiled Showers, Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp. I probably have pictures of it being built. Bill - do you have any thoughts on why so much water is getting through? In A Waterproof Base for Tub Tiling, we touched on the topic ofweep holes in a shower pan or tub flange. Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice. Another all too common mistake is to penetrate the pan liner by using nails to fasten backerboard panels to the curb. 2nd floor laundry room emergency drain. Pan liners are carried up to a height of at least 3" above the finished height of the curb, and must not be penetrated by any fasteners. {{gwi:1488707}}Here is a shot of the opposite side, showing the weephole.{{gwi:1488709}}. Sewer gas from shower drain and water pooling on tiles. Will take me a couple of hours before I can go look through them, but I'll post if I find one. A waterproofing membrane, typically referred to as a pan liner, is subsequently placed over this "pre-slope" and clamped into the drain. A common way for tile setters to protect the weep holes is by placing crushed tile or pea gravel around the drain with a donut hole of brown paper to cover the gravel. Replace all the grout with Spectra Lock? Note that tile for the shower floor is a separate rating from tile for the shower wall. My only determination is that water is getting behind the tile somehow. Here is a link that might be useful: Weep hold question on John Bridge, I came across this thread and thought it was very interesting. How about flexing of the fiberglass shower pan? While traditional drains have been used in these assemblies, fundamentally these drains are not designed to integrate with bonded waterproof membranes. I could not find a contractor who would commit to the job. If there are multiple leaks, then that would explain it. Can anyone tell me what is the proper repair to prevent more problems? However, some water WILL get thru, and that's why a VAPOR BARRIER should be behind the cement board!! That's what I was inferring when I recommended using a blade from a utility knife. Specially designed weep hole protectors are available for purchase at some tile stores. House built in 2004 with "fiberglass" shower pan and tile walls. The mortar bed or tiles placed on a new floor tend to build up around these holes, which leads them to get sealed shut. It depends on the type of shower and the type of drain. But slip-resistant wood look tile is perfect for the shower. It is important to consider that water exists as both liquid and vapor in showers, and must be managed in both forms. Could it be they used the wrong type of grout? Here we are 2 1/2 years later and we noticed water damage to baseboard molding outside of tub. If the drain gets blocked, you might need to pull up tiles and use a scraper. Notice the images below that show the issues caused by a shower liner (pan) installed incorrectly. Thanks, but that's definately not what I wanted to hear. All tiles are rated for different purposes so be sure youve picked tile that is appropriate for the shower. The "preslope" I was referring to is what should be UNDER your liner. If you want a better picture, I will try to post one. If there was no slope under there then it would not show as a circle, but rather the whole flat surface, or some free-form shape.