What about running Rene Herse tires on other hookless rims? I regularly ride (outside of winter, anyways) on Rat Trap Passes inflated to 25-30 psi per my car tire gauge. Your ENVE SES wheels may be set up and run with inner-tubes and non-tubeless tyres or tubeless (TL) and tubeless ready (TLR) tyres alike. The response was an unequivocal confirmation that these tires were fatiguing prematurely and in some cases resulting in crashes and injury to the rider when the tire sidewall failed or the tire came off the rim without warning," Enve said. If the mounting is really tricky, with lots of air escaping until you really blast it with a compressor, then the tire fit probably isnt good enough for safety without hooks. Would the benefits of the better tire fit outweigh the missing safety net of the hooks? Weve also worked with Zipp to ensure optimum tire/rim compatibility. Specifically is hookless the best design overall, or the best design for a carbon wheel. Thoughts? And goatheads. Performance is Important for Slow Riders, too! And indeed, Ted King (above) has been running his Rene Herse tires tubeless on Zipp rims for over a year now, with zero problems. Rene Herse Cycles makes high-performance tires, handlebars and other components for road, all-road and gravel bikes. Thanks for the endurance casing. That is one advantage of carbon: The rims come out of a mold, so they can be very consistent if they are manufactured with quality tooling and with care. They are fine with many gravel tires that are derived from mtb tires. This technique pays large dividends in the final product by allowing for a lighter spoke face while improving rim strength. Saddleback Ltd is registered in England & Wales. Seated really easy and fast, so it felt really reassuring. What about aluminum rims? I currently have 2 sets of Enve M525 and a set of 4.5 ARs that I use for my gravel racing. Mavic A 719 I have never had an issue the Schwalbe G one speeds in either 35 or 38 mm versions, WTB byways in 40 and 44 versions, and WTB Resolutes in 42. The actual blow-off pressures are much higher, but we really dont want to take any risks. "It is important to note that through this study, we reached out to many dealers as well as other wheel manufacturers to see if their consumers are having the same results as ours. There are still plenty of aluminum options in 36h in virtually any wheel size. You can find many 36h wheels on shopping sites, though theyre most likely complete wheels, not rims, and the quality is questionable, unless you go with a name brand. https://www.velocityusa.com/product/rim_applications/clydesdale. Perhaps they didnt get the feedback from the field that there was a problem? Hookless/Straight-Sidewall Design-Tubeless performance depends on the tire maintaining a light press-fit with the rim on the bead seat diameter. Materials, dimensions and other parameters are constantly fine-tuned, even with the same mold. Other than the Specialized tire's incompatibility with the hookless rims, Enve's warning applied to all its carbon rims, not specific models. Aluminum rims are rolled into a circle and welded together, which means that the tolerances for the diameter are always going to be a bit greater. Aerodynamics are an unalienable right for road cyclists and triathletes that allows for greater efficiency and confidence inspiring handling, regardless of wind conditions. Commercial Space Will Be Available at the Easts First World Class Indoor Velodrome. I have bought a pair of DT Swiss GRC 1400 Carbon hookless: Any thoughts on how Rene Herse tires would work tubeless with these rims? Great news as I have brand new Enve G23 rims and 3 different pairs of Rene Herse tyres ! We ship within the USA and International. Enve and Zipp have shown that the best hookless rims can be safe with high-performance tires. Cotton and/or Natural Fibre Sidewall Tyres. Last year, when hookless gravel rims first became widespread, there was a rash of blow-offs with all brands of tires. Its hard to comment on a single case wed have to check that particular rim, that particular tire, the installation, etc. Aerodynamics are an unalienable right for road cyclists and triathletes that allows for greater efficiency and confidence inspiring handling, regardless of wind conditions. If the diameter is just right, there shouldnt be any problem. Over the last year, weve worked with the engineers from both companies to ensure the full compatibility of our tires with their rims. Vittoria and Challenge each issued statements about the Enve warning. As you know, from our correspondence, I had at least 2 failures with Extralight Compass TC tires (Barlow Pass TC and Bon Jon Pass TC) with two different sets of ENVE G23 rims. As mentioned earlier, Enves rims and our tires keep evolving, even if its not always apparent to the customer. We never sell your personal information. When in doubt, you can always run your tires with tubes. The ENVE 45 features ENVEs patent pending Wide Hookless Bead which is a design element at the leading edge of the rim that dissipates impact energy and reduces the likelihood of pinch flatting your tubed or tubeless tire. Its really amazing what you can do with such a large volume of air in a supple tire. ANY ROAD, ANY TIMEThe ENVE 45 is a modern multi-purpose road wheel in every way. As a result, Zipp rims are safe to use with Rene Herse tires, too. Fortunately I was not riding at the time. This testing, while more time consuming and expensive, ensures that the ENVE 45 delivers performance advantages to riders of all abilities. With more than a decades experience in developing some of the worlds fastest wheels, we are uniquely qualified to deliver best-in-class aerodynamics to the Foundation customer. "Enve's SES have two sharp (<0.2mm) radii in their hooks, that leave two parallel cuts about 0.5mm apart, around the entire radius of our (and other company's) tires, at around 3-4mm above the bead," Challenge said. Those with inclinations towards the road lost and forgotten will find the rims width and anti-pinch flat technology complementary to higher volume tubeless road tires. There are no limitations on tyre compatibility with these wheel models. Thanks for this clarifying post! I had a Barlow Pass blow off an Enve M50 rim several years back. It also indicated that other wheel makers are seeing similar problems with the tires. Click here for step-by-step instructions how to set up supple high-performance tires tubeless. Like our SES wheel family, the Foundation Collection and its ENVE 45 were tested and developed at the Mercedes Benz Formula One wind-tunnel to deliver best-in-class real world aero performance. This technique pays large dividends in the final product by allowing for a lighter spoke face while improving rim strength. Ive been looking around for a couple of rims to replace the worn-out ones on my current wheels. This means other tyres maybe compatible but if you choose to run tyres that are not on the approved lists then you do so at your own risk. (The current ETRTO standard requires inner sidewalls with a G height of 5.2 6.5 mm.). Strong, light and maintenance free. In that case, ENVE declined to smooth the corners of its rim hooks. I hope to be able to use your tires again. Run the Best Pressure Tubeless means you can run the pressure you want to maximize comfort, traction, and rolling efficiency. We also believe that to the extent such issues exist, they often pose similar risks regardless of the brand of performance tire used," the company said. Built upon over a decade of carbon wheel crafting experience, the Foundation 45 brings our knowledge and technology to the masses. My new endurance Barlow Pass are the ideal tire for most of my road and gravel riding. Together with the close tolerances of Enves hookless rims, this creates a predictable, secure fit of the tire on the rim. In short, hookless is chosen to deliver a more safe, reliable, and ultimately proper tire fitment. If any wear and/or damage is identified, replace before riding. The supple high-performance tires we love have less casing stiffness, and they run at somewhat higher pressures. 36-hole rims arent exactly hard to come by. Theyve been around for decades on cars and motorcycles, and theyve taken over mountain biking in a storm, too. "We generally see such issues residing with the wheel manufacturer, rather than with our tires. These standards still are some ways out, but our collaboration is already showing results. "It makes intuitive sense that any wheels manufactured with sharper than average edges at the bead where that wheel's rim makes contact with our tires may very well see faster deterioration of the tire's sidewall at that point of contact. They can be any cross-section, and putting hooks to the sidewalls is easy. The ENVE 45 is a modern multi-purpose road wheel in every way. Its great that you have worked with the two leading wheel manufacturers in the north american market to ensure that your tyres are safe to use with their products. What I can say is that our tires are constantly evolving. DT-Swiss TK 540 Please see photos for detailed specifications. Flat less, ride more Flat tires are a buzz-kill. We had a set of DT carbon rims on a Bicycle Quarterly test bike recently, and the tire fit seemed very good on both front and rear rims. Our supple high-performance tires dont have the same casing stiffness as the mtb-derived gravel tires you mention. Yet I was surprised that no other tire maker issued a warning or at least guidance. Your ENVE SES wheels may be set up and run with inner-tubes and non-tubeless tyres or tubeless (TL) and tubeless ready (TLR) tyres alike. It said it had studied the issue and found that tire models with natural fiber casings and an "open tubular" construction are susceptible to sidewall wear leading to sudden blowouts. They are formed from extrusions (imagine squeezing frosting out of a pastry bag when icing a cake). You can still get these European 36H aluminum rims: The answer that I got was best for carbon and proven by the general rim/tire industry (i.e. The website doesn't say exactly how or why those models don't comply with the standard. Thanks for this clarifying post. The last 5 years have been interesting: For decades, tire technology had evolved mostly in terms of tread rubber making it grippy and long-lasting, while also reducing the rolling resistance. With more than a decades experience in developing some of the worlds fastest wheels, we are uniquely qualified to deliver best-in-class aerodynamics to the Foundation customer. And good fit is what you want for tubeless tires. Enve specifically warned against use of the Vittoria Corsa Non-Tubeless tire model, and all Open Tubular Non-Vulcanized Tire models from Challenge. Challenge said that because of the hook radius, the SES rim model does not comply with current international standards and said it has notified Enve of the situation. This means that the tire fit is much more consistent. Unlike other wheel brands who only test isolated wheels at elite speeds of 30mph/48kph, ENVE develops and tests wheels in-frame at multiple speeds ranging from 20mph/32kph to 30mph/48kph. So its good to have the hook as an additional precaution against blowing the tire off the rim. Challenge's response could be summed up as "it's not our tires, it's their rim." Its a wonderful combination btw. All rights reserved, Auburn Cord Duesenberg Museum, Auburn, Indiana, Erik's first e-bike-only store is also its first Arizona location, OKAI shows new fat-tire e-bike model at Big Gear Show, State Bicycle Co. and Corona Announce Cycling Collection. Flange spacing and hub shell geometry designed to maximize performance metrics such as wheel and drive stiffness, ID360 40t drive mechanism delivers efficient and responsive power transmission, Maintenance free premium full contact sealed NTN steel bearings. The benefits of road tubeless are as follows: Lower rolling resistance By eliminating the inner-tube, the friction between tire and tube is also eliminated, allowing the tire roll, flex, and conform to the road with greater efficiency. (Few cars, motorcycles and mountain bikes exceed 2.5 bar/35 psi.) Adapting the technology to road, all-road and gravel bikes has posed special challenges. The only ones I can recall are from the 1970s and early 80s. Please note that the internal rim width of the G23 is 23mm and intended for use with tubeless ready tyres 28mm with 40mm tyres being the primary focus of the design. 1600 Pearl St., Ste 300Boulder, CO 80302This website copyright 2022. Good news that youre looking into this, its very difficult and confusing as a consumer to have a good overview of different standards and compatability. Tubeless is useful when the terrain is so rough and the speeds so high that pinch flats are a real concern. (Visit our tire pressure page to dial in your best tire pressure). I might also add that I ride around 8000-9000 miles per year, and or the last 3 years I have only ridden tubeless. Because of this process, our spoke holes are capable of maintaining higher spoke tensions, greatly reducing the risk of spoke pull-through and the need to constantly true your wheels. To clarify, the 2 mm tolerance with hooked sidewalls is in diameter, so its a tolerance of 1 mm on each rim bed. Strong, light and maintenance free. Most carbon rims are hookless, because creating the hook requires a very complex mold. If not, I believe your report is inaccurate. I no longer have these wheels as I used Enves trade in to get a second set of M525 (no objective data but subjectively I like the tire profile and handling of the wider internal width of the M525 over the M50). Tubeless tires are an emerging technology. Application: Road, Road Race, Triathlon, All-Road, Tire Compatibility: Tubeless 25c or larger, Wide Hookless Bead provides pot-hole protection, Tubeless Optimized for Rolling Fast and Fewer Flats, Lifetime Incident Protection and 5 Year Factory Warranty, 1x roll of tape (good for taping 3 wheels). Myths Debunked: Higher Tire Pressure is NOT Faster, Enve and Zipp hookless rims and Rene Herse tires. These are all relatively stiff tires that run at relatively low pressures. ENVE recommends the use of a Tubeless (TL) or Tubeless Ready (TLR) 700x25c tyre set up tubeless to maximise aerodynamics, rolling resistance, crosswind stability, and your ride experience.Non-Tubeless Setup Each ENVE SES wheelset is delivered with one roll of model specific, ENVE tested and approved tubeless rim tape. No wonder tubeless didnt work well before. Enve told dealers and registered purchasers of its carbon wheels to avoid certain tires from Vittoria and Challenge. ENVEs patented process of molding spoke and valve stem holes results in rims that are stronger and lighter. A report that will give confidence to many. Blended aero properties, tubeless compatibility, and pinch flat protection for the rider looking to test the waters on carbon wheel performance. I am a larger and heavier rider. Fortunately, our tires werent affected by the issue with Enves overly sharp rim edges. Since the hook helps retain the tire bead (above), we were wary when hookless gravel and all-road rims were first introduced. Ive often wondered why some tire makers make their tires without any reinforcement there. If you continue to use this site, we assume that you are OK with this. Models:SES 3.4 AR, SES 4.5 AR Tubeless Rim Type: Hookless/Straight-Sidewall Inner-Tube Compatible: Yes, Only with Tubeless/Tubeless Ready Tyre Inner Rim Width Dimension: 25mm Aero Optimised Tyre Size Recommendation: 27-28mm Tyre Size Range Compatibility: 27mm Rims Maximum Tyre Pressure: 80psi/5.5bar (28mm tyre), 67psi/4.6bar (32mm tyre), Continental GP5000 TL 28mm Hutchinson Sector 32 32mm Hutchinson Fusion 5 Performance 11Storm 28mm Hutchinson Fusion 5 All Season 11Storm 28mm Mavic Yksion Pro UST 28mm Pirelli Cinturato Velo TLR 28mm Pirelli Cinturato Velo TLR 32mm Specialized S-Works Turbo 2Bliss Ready 28mm Specialized Roubaix Pro 2Bliss Ready 30/32mm Teravail Rampart All-Road Light/Supple TR (Tan Sidewall) 32mm, Models:G23 (700c), G27 (650b) Tubeless Rim Type: Hookless/Straight-Sidewall Inner-Tube Compatible: Yes, Only with Tubeless/Tubeless Ready Tyre Inner Rim Width Dimension: G23=23mm, G27=27mm Tyre Size Range Compatibility: G23 28mm, G27 42mm Rims Maximum Tyre Pressure: G23 = 60psi/4.1bar (32mm tyre), G27 = 40psi/2.75bar (42mm tyre), Please note that the internal rim width of the G23 is 23mm and intended for use with tubeless ready tyres 28mm with 40mm tyres being the primary focus of the design. White Industries now makes hookless aluminum . Please refer to our Tire Compatibility page to see what tires are approved/recommended for use with the ENVE 45. In other cases, Enve said, the tires can stretch with use, causing them to come off the rim. Tubeless with sealant has solved that very annoying problem in some parts of the country. This testing, while more time consuming and expensive, ensures that the ENVE 45 delivers performance advantages to riders of all abilities. Those with inclinations towards the road lost and forgotten will find the rims width and anti-pinch flat technology complementary to higher volume tubeless road tires., ** total_quantity ** | ** unit_price ** / ** unit_measure **, Lifetime Incident Protection and 5 Year Factory Warranty, (Visit our tire pressure page to dial in your best tire pressure), Tire Compatibility: Tubeless 25c or larger, Real World Foundation Aero Technology, Wide Hookless Bead provides pot-hole protection, Tubeless Optimized for Rolling Fast and Fewer Flats. For tubeless installations, you need tubeless-compatible tires (marked TC). Potholes and unforeseen impacts are part of life, but that doesnt mean they need to ruin your ride. Enve tested the bead length, bead stiffness, casing stiffness, blow-off pressure and a number of other parameters. I dont have any experience with Easton rims. So a 2020 Barlow Pass will be a different tire from a 2014 one. ENVE Worthy, and priced to provide the foundation for confident riding through performance crafted carbon in the US. They effectively blackballed a number of very well-regarded tyre manufacturers to cover up for their own rim manufacturing shortcuts. Although this had little practical import in the European market where I am, I was not amused by what I see as a clear abuse of position in their primary US market. I have been running my carbon EC70 AX wheelset tubeless with the Steilacoom Extralights without any issues. Vittoria also suggested that riders inspect their wheels for any sharp edges that could cause premature tire wear. We sell them because they work very well with our tires. I have stayed under 40 psi on the pressures as that is my preference. 2 mm of diameter is only 1 mm of radius, but over 6 mm of circumference. Ideally, the fit should be good enough that a floor pump is all you need to seat the tire. There is no question that the ride quality of the Compass/Rene Herse extralight tires is fantastic. And dont exceed the maximum of 60 psi (4.1 bar) that we recommend for tubeless tires plenty for most gravel and all-road applications. I well remember the (black) listing of some tyre manufacturers that ENVE published a short while ago. If you choose to run these tyres, please inspect your tyres after each ride for cuts, tears, and any signs of abrasion and/or wear in the sidewall and at the location of the rim/tyre interface. "The tire has been run and raced on both steel, aluminum, and carbon fiber wheelsets, including our own, throughout the world with no previously reported consistent failures," the company said. These tyres are intended for high-performance racing applications only. At Rene Herse Cycles, were always interested in new technologies for off-pavement riding, and were working with other rim and tire companies to establish the first ISO standards for tubeless tires. Enve also confirmed that the diameter of our Rene Herse tires is very consistent, so there is little danger of getting a tire that fits poorly because its a bit on the large side. If it works well, then its good. We use cookies to give you the best experience on our website. Riders with inclinations toward racing and hard solo efforts will find the rims drag-taming, and cross-wind defying shape a welcome upgrade to their rides. I have some Compass Steilacooms that Im hoping to mount on my Enve hookless rims (g23 or 3.4AR) do they pass the test as well? Such excessively sharp edges can result from design thus affecting an entire model of wheel, from anomalies in the manufacturing process thus affecting a number of wheels manufactured during a production run, or from a failure to observe a manufacturing defect or damage to a single rim. Built upon over a decade of carbon wheel crafting experience, the Foundation 45 brings our knowledge and technology to the masses. But how would they perform with our supple high-performance tires? Because carbon fiber gets its strength from continuous fibers, ENVE routes the fibers around the hole without cutting them, increasing the strength of each spoke hole. Potholes and unforeseen impacts are part of life, but that doesnt mean they need to ruin your ride.