Always the go to place! At the end of the NEO 2T review I include a few cassette examples. I was happy to pay the money for your go to trainer, but not if the build quality has gone down hill. Kinetic Smart Control Road Machine 2018 Edition $569 Thankfully, Saris did a bunch of work to dramatically reduce that noise with the H3. I do think if you can get a used unit under about $400, and know exactly which apps youre using and if theyre compatible then go forth. It was the first direct-drive smart trainer below $1,000 when it came out, and supported all the apps people wanted. But till then, soon here in the next week or two the links here on the site will also be dynamic based on whether something is in stock. thank for help. Why havent you yet released a review for XYZ product you mentioned months ago? Lastly, overwhelmingly for US customers especially, support for Tacx is far better with Garmin. When did the Tacx Neo 2T first come out? One of the most popular trainer fans out there, rivaling the Wahoo Headwind fan in strength but at a fraction of the price. What do you think about a Elite DRIVO 1 ? Ive just got my replacement Saris H3 from LordGun. Trainers are a necessity for those of us cursed with cold and snowy winters every year. Its noisy when going downhill in Zwift (like coming off the Epic KOM in Watopia) but pretty good everywhere else. A huge repertoire of knowledge, thank you. In general Id just pickup a Shimano or SRAM cassette that matches what you have on your bike. They charge you for shipping to your house. Get all your awesome DC Rainmaker gear here! The most common question I receive outside of the whats the best GPS watch for me variant, are photography-esq based. Or should I go with the Core instead? , Ouch, my plan to grab the Core with $180 discount went out the window At least they cannot take the divident away. Its a pain in the ass. My feeling is that I train based on my numbers and trying to improve on those. And feel free to drop any questions below, Ill be happy to answer them. If thats the case (but certainly not saying my choices arent good for women), and you just want to see a different gear junkies picks, check out The Girls Gear Guide too. Amazon Germany (EU-style plugs): link to amzn.to None of the trainers Im recommending have this issue, but in general, keep it in mind. It was all bike & setup related. Lowes, Home Depot, etc.. $18 at HD right now. The Tuo purchase link labeled Competitive Cyclist actually links to REI. I think thats a pretty good deal, Indeed, I was checking as well this morning and consolidated all of the currently available trainers on sale/valid here: link to dcrainmaker.com. SO much great info! By all means, if you understand the risk buy where it makes sense. The Amazon Europe sites all offer it, but they also add hundreds of dollars of shipping costs. Budget trainer: The two options that I can recommend are as follows: my weekly podcast - with GPLAMA, which is packed with both gadget and non-gadget goodness! When that came out Wahoo basically took a full 2017 KICKR and made it silent. This thing is awesome. While the upper-mid tier of trainers gets closer and closer to these units in specs, the distinguishing aspects of the high-end trainers tends to be road feel and resistance ceilings (and to a lesser extent these days, accuracy which is equal/better than +/- 1%). Zero. Still? Will you test our product before release? Have you tested the H3 power numbers against your bike power meter? Thanks. Indeed, its super tough finding something in stock at the moment. 3) Any additional experiences on the fit of a disc-equipped 2020 Domane 56 cm, or similarly sized frame fitting in a Kickr Smart Trainer or Core and the Neo 2T? @Joe, it is entirely common for shifting to vary a bit between a bike and different wheels. The dropout width is probably not a modern standard, either. With that, Tacx got rid of the low-speed slip-sprint problem of the NEO 1/2. Im headed to Paris what do you recommend for training or sightseeing? In fact it seems a bit tougher workout. Just thought of something since the Core does not have adjustable legs, what wheel size is it optimized for? Is the type of bicycle I use an important factor in choosing they type of trainer I purchase? Great guide (as usual) agree with your comments on the Tacx Neo I use mine with TrainerRoad and always know it locks onto workouts in ERG mode and is ultra accurate. Saris H3 $1186.97 So. Or, if you can somehow find a non 2T NEO you might be able to split the difference. Sitting at $150 cheaper than the CORE at $749, the Flux S is basically just the 2016/2017/2018 Flux 1 with a bunch of internal changes and support for longer derailleur cages. (I try desperately while training to correct this by concentrating on my right side) Unfortunately, the stationary bikes are uncomfortable for my tall frame and boring. But I think those issues are largely behind us these days for people going out and buying new trainers. Remember, you can make your own comparison tables here. I just read that Saris does not make a Campagnolo freehub so my decision is a little easier now. Just my 5 cents: I ride an Elite Suito T since 1 year, in combination with Rouvy on Windows PC. Seemed like a good deal, until I saw your critical review, How about a follow up to your review of the Kickr Bike which I read when you initially posted it? Notify me of followup comments via e-mail. Im currently waiting for Bkool support to get back to me again about my Bkool Pro 2 which seems to have a temperature related drift Im not optimistic that it will ever be properly right as there was even an article on Bkools site at one point about why their Pro 2s werent accurate Its fine in simulation mode as I have a power meter, but ERG mode is just horrible and I spend every interval battling with the trainer to get just the right gear/power match/cadence to counter the drift. I am not the techy-ist guy and am wondering if you have anybody on here who have set up computrainer with zwift. You can click here to Subscribe without commenting. Ive then further confirmed this with a few other tire companies as well. Im trying to decide between a wheel on vs mid range direct drive. Wheel-off trainers fall into the same category. Still, the line is getting fuzzier and fuzzier here between a $900 trainer and a $1,199 trainer. Ok, were almost to the recommendations. You had so much potential with the R1. The Elite Suito should be $799, if youre seeing $899, that simply means a retailer is marking up the price for extra profit. The CLIMB doesnt work with non-Wahoo trainers. Any chance you have a data set with the Assioma Duos to look at? The product features on this seem really incredible. Specifically, look carefully at these four areas: A) Maximum incline You are a hero Ray Thank you. So for less powerfull riders the flow is good and cheap, but for powerfull riders its not good. I assumed this was the same on the neo 2t? I have an older mtn bike and would like to use it on a direct drive trainer for fitness (spin) workouts. In these cases, try to find one that has a quick-release mechanism for quickly locking the trainer into place. Also, Ive been using that fan listed below for a few months both the US variant (Lasko), and the EU/UK variant (Vacmaster). I use a 6036 rubber carpeted entry way mat. Would love to hear any others who have taken this path and issues and limitations. Unfortunately, its simply not accurate. In the UK/EU/Australia/New Zealand? When we talk noice Elite Suito/Kickr Core/Tacx Flow how big is the difference? Saris H3 889 + 36 casette. Technically the 2017 to 2018 jump also slightly increased the flywheel size, but most people cant feel that difference side by side. 10 one hundred milers, 32 races, many times up the big climbs on ZWIFT. This is due, I believe to nerve damage post a prolapsed disc affecting my right calf. Thanks. Wahoo: ANT+ FE-C on all smart trainers. Whereas direct-drive trainers mean you remove the back wheel and attach the bike directly to the trainer (via a cassette on the trainer). Virtually all devices use one or both of these low-power technologies to transmit and capture information such as heart rate, power, speed, cadence, and more. Then they assume something is broken when there is simply a common adjustment necessary. This is a tricky category, and where the vast majority of innovation is occurring. What is your thoughts? With Garmin comes a different set of rules. I believe one is set to arrive this week here. Until then, I simply cant recommend it. Zilch. ;-). Thus, my bike isnt either I dont cover up my bike. The 800w piece probably isnt too challenging for most people, especially triathletes, but the 6% gradient may be tricky (of course, if you leave defaults on Zwift, youre unlikely to notice). This is, again, my *recommendations*, not the holy grail of everything ever made by everyone. Your right leg drops crazy-low (20-25w lower) than left leg while at 50w. Id be happy with any of these five trainers. Its like bikes themselves a lot of marketing hype. Thus, its a no-go for me. Now that about a year has elapsed, have you heard any more about Neo 2T quality issues that would change your opinion of it? Im debating between a Wahoo Kickr Core and the Elite Direto XR. A straight-up sprint didnt see any issues for me. However, they tend to be less powerful trainers and may not be as accurate or as realistic feeling. Amazon UK (UK-style plugs): link to amzn.to. The Core would save a chunk of money, do you think it would still be acceptable in that scenario (holding it from beneath to move it to the next room)? 60 is long enough for the trainer and bike. Ray, do you expect to see in Fall 2021 any major updates to the smart bikes from Wahoo, Tacx, and Stages? And is there a difference with a virtual Flywheel like the Tacx vs a Kickr or an H3? Also, neither have horns or bouncy options. I asked a long time ago, but hadnt heard anything. On the trainer company side only Elite, Saris, and Kinetic support it across the board. I got the correct power, the correct cadence and 338km/h. Most companies have adapters (and in many cases finally just released them in the past few months), but not always again, especially for any older trainers beyond about 2 years old. Why? Giant Power Pro also used in test as they are my everyday power meter. Pre-Garmin, if you were a US consumer or shop, you had to go via the Tacx distributor for everything. Ray, I am a curios as to your comment that you use a riser block with every trainer. BC/CC are working on a fix so that wont happen but its a bit longer timeframe. This link [Pop-open a new window to see all 6 trainers here, including the 4iiii Fliiiight] is broken. Hi Ray, My only (nd its pending) grumble is lack of longevity I looked back to see that I bought mine in Feb 2019 and it died on me tonight (July 2022) so just 3 and a half years in it. Though, not necessarily product innovation, but rather just price innovation. What bothers me the most is mounting/unmounting the bicycle, especially as all of us 5 at home got an interest in this kind of exercise. I train every day on the stock wheels and tires that came with the bike. Though again, being 2020 beggars cant be choosers, and theres nothing wrong with it per se it just wouldnt make the list in a normal year. In that situation, I dont think anyone would be unhappy with the choice. Wondering if you have considerations or input on why I might still go with the Wahoo I see in some of the comments below that you feel theres still plenty of reasons one might go with Wahoo, but you didnt elaborate. Ultimately, having ridden them side by side, the Direto XR is a good trainer with nice specs, but what it doesnt have is the same level of ride feel as a KICKR/H3/NEO, nor does it have the silence of the KICKR/NEO, and finally, it lacks any of those top-tier type feature-unlocks like KICKR CLIMB compatibility or ride feel stuff. Theres both the Wahoo KICKR Desk, but also the near identical but slightly better version by 3rd parties here for half the price. Are any manufacturers willing to supply parts for DIY repair? (by the way what do you call a fish with no eyes? Ok, I think Ive got the manual overrides all in for all the Amazon EU countries. Great info as always Ray. And if youve got a disc-brake equipped bike, ensure that the trainer youre purchasing includes the adapters for that. Its nice to see someone making the effort to provide objective evaluations of products, particularly in that no one product will be perfect for all. Im looking into getting a better trainer and wondered if you are going to update this for 2021? But keep in mind, having a power meter in it doesnt really matter. That said I appreciate it! would probably also lead to more affiliate clicks for you . As always, there may be edge cases for things, but my goal here isnt to make every brand happy with including every unit. Its what I do. With regards to direct drive trainers, there was no mention on re-indexing or readjusting rear derailleur limit screws or when swapping your bike from trainer to on road. Not ideal in a carpeted living room, but not even noticed in a garage. In case anyone is wondering what the Wahoo Kickr v5 surge issue is likelets say you hit a break stage in a Sufferfest video so you stop spinning to grab some water, towel off, or whatever. Note that as one might expect theres been very few trainer announcements this year, and those that have occurred have been incredibly minor updates. As one who does that regularly, its @#$#@ expensive. Check out I got an Elite Nero last year, hard to get proper reviews about interactive rollers these days, but Elite seemed to be a respectable company That is the core issue here, that has a relatively easy solution once you know what it is. The trainers work, and I use them, but they both knockparticularly at low cadence rpms. You can find it at around 750. I just picked one up on Mercari. I am not upset with you but I am upset with Wahoo. Think my written reviews are deep? In any case, as with last year, I think the value prop for the Elite Direto XR is tough (last year it was the Direto X). Elite Tuo $529 Specifically ones that transmit some sort of ANT+ and Bluetooth Smart signal (dual/concurrently), and allow control of the trainer itself (via ANT+ FE-C and/or Bluetooth Smart FTMS). The wheel on trainer is easier to accommodate differences but you probably would be best off with a trainer tire and not ruin a good tire. i think ray it s about how someone categorize the Direto XR. I have the Wahoo Kickr V1. The manufacturers are more focused on the newer equipment to sell you than offering options to keep the older options alive. Ive spent A LOT of time on my bike, pouring a lot of sweat many multi-hour rides. Just funny to try and point the finger at the trainer when it was not at fault in any way based on the changes you say he mechanic made. He knew exactly how to deal with the main issue I had with itfixed that and even adjusted the hanger as my rear deurrallier (so?) Failing that does anyone have any experience of maintaining out-of-warranty trainers ? Im pretty strict in that I dont recommend things I havent used or know a lot about. My preference is overwhelmingly direct-drive, but I also totally get that such a trainer may be out of the ballpark of ones budget. Hope this works. You say: At $949, the Elite Direto XR sits $50 more than the better road feel (and silent) Wahoo CORE at $899 (though, thatll require a ~$50 cassette) but still.. Not sure if this is a mistake, but I just went on Amazon to look at the Elite Suito and it is $899.00, not $799.00. :-/, Hello Ray, What I like to know the most is if you consider that still is better wait to buy that kind of product. My bike needed a tune up and good cleaning anyway, so perfect! So shouldnt be an issue. I always ride like that. Would you recommend a Wahoo or Saris over the 2T? Does it make a difference when you have the chain sound anyways? Shot in the dark, but what would the best trainer be to buy if looking to use with ZWIFT and apps like Peloton? However, Elite still has the Suito priced at $799, which also includes a cassette. While the NEO 2T did have some initial accuracy issues when it was first announced, those were largely resolved in subsequent firmware updates to my satisfaction. Not sure whether theres a new CORE on the horizon, but I would guess that horizon basically wouldnt be till next fall by time things start shipping. It is getting super squeaky and whiney too. But this year is different. And Ive read good and bad stuff about Garmin service. All have been dropped save one: the Tacx Flow Smart. Sadly, some retailers (notably Backcountry/CompetitiveCyclist/REI) actually kill the links when stock goes out. For what app are you doing that? Im considering the following Out of curiosity how about the Elite Drivo 2? Amazing guide as always. So I would recommend people noto to buy this trainer until they sort these things. Impervious to sweat, oil, grease. I still occasionally pull up the review to get some laughs . I am just about to purchase new electric TREK. I cover all the units to buy (and avoid) for indoor training. Went back, powered trainer power was instantly transmitted. Still going strong due to the cant break em nature. Hate to pass up a deal, but after following you for years, wouldnt make sense to ignore the advice. Youre probably not allowed to tell anything due to embargos/NDAs Ahh yes, that desk is awesome. I know a lot of folks will want some sort of concrete answer on which of the aforementioned trainers to pick, but the reality is that they are just so darn similar. elite suite without casette 520 As always, situations might vary that make it a better deal. Annual dividend and nice 20% discount starting tomorrow for members. Im headed to Washington DC what do you recommend for training? And by basically, I mean, thats all it is. Went back for Stryd, put it in home no power in trainer Any idea what I can do not to move my Stryd to garden whenever I want to cycle? I just dont have to think about it. As you said, it is complicated. Attaching it to a mini velo with 20 wheels. Andthats it in terms of end-user differences. cobblestones), Support rolldown procedure (for wheel based), Supports ANT+ FE-C (Trainer Control Standard), Supports Bluetooth Smart FTMS (Trainer Control Standard), Supports Multiple Concurrent Bluetooth connections, Copyright DC Rainmaker - Updated May 21st, 2022 @ 5:01 am, Copyright DC Rainmaker - Updated May 21st, 2022 @ 5:07 am, Copyright DC Rainmaker - Updated July 12th, 2022 @ 11:22 am, Wireless + Wahoo Direct Connect Ethernet Adapter (Accessory). Wahoo, Saris, (once CycleOps), Tacx, Elite, Kinetic, etc Most of these companies now support the ANT+ & Bluetooth Smart standard versions, but some of them also support their older variants to help out older apps.